Should More Men Attend the Girl Geek Dinners?
What do you think? PR practitioner Joseph Thornley, who was the sole male attendee at our inaugural dinner thinks so, and he's posted about it here.
Of particular interest is the following excerpt from his blog post:
Since this is a group effort, I'm going to throw it out there to you - what do you think? Should we actively encourage more men to attend, or should we preserve our original intent in making a place for women who work in technology (and who are vastly underrepresented in this field) to network and share with one another?
Thoughts?
Of particular interest is the following excerpt from his blog post:
Now, I’m old enough to have entered the work force when the workplace culture really did resemble that portrayed on Mad Men. But the world has moved on.
Every male executive I know today wants to build an organization that will attract and retain the best women. We’d be stupid to do anything else...
I plan to attend future Girl Geek Dinners. And I’d encourage other male executives to do so as well. Not only will we learn a lot about the experience of women in business and technology, but we’ll also get to hear some top notch speakers.
Since this is a group effort, I'm going to throw it out there to you - what do you think? Should we actively encourage more men to attend, or should we preserve our original intent in making a place for women who work in technology (and who are vastly underrepresented in this field) to network and share with one another?
Thoughts?



89 Comments:
At September 20, 2007 3:30 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Joe is a nice guy and all, but I don't think men belong at TGGD. I interpret the group's mandate to be one that focuses on women and that's what I would like to see when I look around the dinner table.
If Joe wants to get to know this collection of fabulous women, perhaps we could open the events to men once or twice each year.
Otherwise, I hope Joe is willing to don a skirt and false eyelashes. Until then, he won't fit in.
At September 20, 2007 3:53 PM ,
Joseph Thornley said...
I don't want push into a place where I'm not welcome. But it really struck me that I was hearing a lot of discussion about "how do we change the way the men who run our organizations see things?" And I think the best way to do that is to get them involved in the discussion on your ground on your terms.
One more thing. I'm not a fan of anonymous comments. If I have something to say, I have the courage to sign my name to it. :-)
At September 20, 2007 4:14 PM ,
Jenny Bullough said...
Joe, it's too bad you couldn't make it out to last night's TGGD -- there were plenty of guys there and I felt the atmosphere was welcoming to everyone regardless of gender. Leila's inspiring talk centred more around the challenges of starting your own business and the need to take risks, and the ensuing discussion illuminated a lot of topics, none of them having to do with changing the minds of men -- unless it meant encouraging them to launch their own ideas into the marketplace. :)
Thanks to you both for your comments!
At September 20, 2007 6:01 PM ,
Vera Bass said...
I attended for the first time last night and enjoyed it tremendously. I've always been one of those women who is doing what she wants and believes in whether among men or women of both, and am, for the first time, finding a lot of powerful energy in women coming together in business.
The presence of men, to me, is positive, on the basis that they're joining a gathering based on collective and positive female energy, in the same way that women can collaborate on work projects with a groups of men. The one thing I would actively resist is the intrusion of anyone who viewed the group as a 'target market', but I'd feel the same way about this whether a group was all or mostly male, female, parents, etc.
Vera
At September 20, 2007 8:30 PM ,
Joseph Thornley said...
Hi Jenny,
I found the atmosphere at the first dinner that I attended to be very welcoming. And I thought from some of the comments afterward that in fact more men would be welcome.
For example, Sandy Kemsley posted on her blog after the dinner:
"One of the questions that came up was how to get more women integrated into the Toronto tech community, and I suggested that the *Camp events were a great place to start: they’re more casual, it’s easy to gain some experience and confidence with public speaking by heading up a session, and the male attendees are not the usual chest-beating alpha males that you find at some technology events. How disappointing, as I looked around the room, to realize that not a single TorCamp man was in attendance to show his support for women in the Toronto tech community.
"The next dinner is planned for September 19th, hope to see more of you then."
Maggie followed up a post by David Crow with the comment: "Hey David – consider yourself invited! We need a speaker and sponsor for October – think you can help us out?"
If I've missread these posts and the discussion, OK.
But I do think that the Girl Geek dinners are a great place to bring both genders together to talk about how “to make technology accessible and interesting to all age groups and all people, particularly women.”
At September 21, 2007 10:54 AM ,
maggie fox said...
In the interest of providing context, here's the text of David's post, to which I responded with the invitation:
"Tucows is sponsoring up to 25 students by picking up their tab. This is fantastic.I had talked to Maggie Fox and Sandy Kemsley about doing something similar... My sponsorship offer still stands provided I can get to the next Girl Geek Dinner, I will sponsor a table of student geek girls for the event, but someone needs to invite me to participate."
And BTW, I also think commenters should stand behind their words. I'll change it now so that anonymous comments are no longer allowed.
At September 25, 2007 9:07 AM ,
Kathryn Lagden said...
I haven't been able to attend either of the TGGD events but I'm definitely looking forward to attending a future event.
Interesting discussion on welcoming men into the fold. I think a lot of good can come out of both men and women attending these events and sharing ideas and perspectives. I've attended a lot of events where i've been one of a handful of women in the audience. it's nice to know there's an event that is designed specifically for women. but i don't think that needs to exclude men.
I would like to see the main speaker be a women...at least most of the time. As a woman in tech I see a lot of value in attending events to hear the first hand experience of other women in the field. Talking about the ideas presented with the men at the table can only lead to better understanding for everyone.
At September 27, 2007 7:40 AM ,
Michelle Sullivan said...
I'm grateful for Joe's Third Tuesdays and look forward to working with him to set up a Montreal chapter. He's a PR professional I respect enormously.
And I agree that it's great when conversations in mixed crowds turn around the realities of the workplace and the role of women in the field.
I'm left wondering, though ... there are plenty of opportunities for that to happen elsewhere. What role does a Girl Geek Dinner serve if it is like just any other Geek event?
And not having attended a Girl Geek dinner, I'd be curious to know how the dynamic changes when there's a man at the table.
What I appreciate about the idea of a woman-only Girl Geek dinner is that it affords the opportunity for women working in a non-traditional field to meet amongst themselves for a frank exchange of ideas about things that concern them, specifically.
Perhaps the anonymous comment is a reflection of a sense that there are somethings that cannot be said openly, whether publicly or in mixed company, without fear of backlash. After all, it seems to me that there's no reason to post anonymously if you consider the space to be a safe one. Perhaps that holds true at an event like a Girl Geek Dinner as well?
That said, I definitely like the idea of opening the event up to everyone a couple of times a season. Men like Joe, who are interested in discussing the role of women in the profession are always in my good books.
I hope to join you in Toronto at some point or see a Montreal chapter open up soon.
Cheers!
Michelle Sullivan
At October 1, 2007 5:06 PM ,
Shelley said...
Reality is that I get both sides of this.
I can see the want, need and desire to keep the TGGD's as predominantly focusing on women in or interested in the industry. Yet I also see that Joe has a point that male executives need to have an opportunity to become more aware of what women have to offer to the table. Not to mention the fact that I am sure the men would be thrilled to hear the fabulous speakers who are invited.
I see the reason behind bringing a female with you to be able to attend (this would also cut down on anyone thinking this could be a pick up market I think), yet I worry that men who really are supportive of women in our fields will in turn not attend as they might be married, etc. and their wives might not be interested in attending, yet they would have a hard time talking it around to bring a coworker.
I think that we really need to evaluate the criteria and take things like this into consideration. I really don't want to limit myself from meeting people in a positive environment, and gender aside... The dinner last month was one of my most positive experiences in a very long time.
Regards,
Shelley
In the interest of making sure I am most definitely not anonymous:
http://www.designbysls.com
At October 12, 2007 7:33 AM ,
Sarah Blow said...
I'm glad you are all talking about the suggestion of men attending the events. The reason for the one guy per girl sounds like it needs a little more explaining.
You the girls are in control of who attends in terms of the men. The men who attend are in essence vetted by you... It is therefore your responsibility to ensure that the men attending the event aren't there to tout, hit on or 'target market' the women at the events. Feel free to put them in their place by telling them politely that they need to learn from the experience and enjoy the views of others. :)
On the other hand however I do firmly believe that men are as justified as anyone to be there at the events, and for this reason we actively encourage men to get involved and to find a girl geek to take them along.(note must be geeky girl... interested in the events, industry etc not just their other half!!) I think they have a lot to learn from the experience and it's a learning process on both sides. Men often don't realise the issues faced in business from a female perspective, and from the London events the feedback has been great.
There have been very few occasions where it has been deemed inappropriate for men to attend, we've even had male speakers before now too. After all balance is a good thing and they have as much reason to be educating and sharing their knowledge as anyone.
Don't feel threatened by them being there, they are there to learn too! They want to understand better how to interact and how to make your work environments better. Welcome the men who are interested in helping with the industry and in making your environment better for you. After all this isn't an us against them thing, it's about working together and understanding one another.
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